Q-n-A

(or FAQ? or AMA?)


 Q: What's the picture of?



 A: FINALLY! Someone asks.
The picture is of the pedestal with no statue on it, bearing the inscription, "To the Unknown God".
Now, I'm well aware of what other historians, theologians, and commentators have written on this subject. What I'm about to tell you will contradict them all. And, yes, this is just my opinion, too, but it's an opinion based on information you, too, know all too well, information those others did not have, but which they nonetheless presumed, based an opinion on, and presented as fact even though, careful to qualify it by inserting some mention of it being theory.
It's not theory; it's hypothesis.
And my opinion is that the Athenians were not merely shooting in the dark, ensuring they had all their bases covered, leaving no god out of the pantheon by placing an empty pillar there. That would be completely uncharacteristic of the Athenians, who were very careful to call everything by its proper name. As near as I can tell, they never employed such a vague generalization anywhere else. One would expect to see, for example, a temple somewhere, dedicated to whatever other god(s) might have been overlooked, but we find this nowhere outside an assertion in some 'theory' that such a place existed.
So, ...
When Paul ignored Peter's warning, and took the Gospel to the Gentiles, the first place he went was Athens, which should tell us something about who the Gentiles really are. But, as Peter warned him, Paul was promptly arrested for disturbing the peace, and marched to the top of the Aureopagus for judgement.
Along the way, the group passed several statues of Athenian gods: Athena, of course, Cronus, Demeter, probably some others, too, but then there was one with no statue on it. Paul stopped, and told them (paraphrasing), "Why am I being arrested for teaching a foreign religion when you already worship him whom I've come to tell you about?"
This really threw the Athenians a curve-ball they weren't expecting, and Paul had his opening.
For us, though, a number of questions arise. First, Paul was a Pharisee, as he told us himself, the very strictest sect of the Levitical faith (Judaism). Moreover, he was a Rabbi, and one of the rules which Rabbis must adhere to is that they can not lie, nor even dissemble (passing off opinion as fact, or, through silence, allowing someone to be deceived). So, now we have Paul telling the Athenians that their 'unknown' god is the very one Paul has come to tell them about. So, we must assume that a) Paul knew what he was talking about, and b) this unknown god is truly the same being known to Paul as Christ.
So, what's the problem then?
Planets.
It's well known by all now that the Mesopotamian, Egyptian, Persian, Akkadian, Hittite, Sumerian, Athenian, Chinese, Greek, Roman, German, Norse, and Celtic gods were planets, stars, comets, even seasons (affected by planets), and the highly educated Paul must know this. Athena, for example, is believed by most scholars to have been Venus, but by some to have been the moon. Either way, she was a planet. (I side with Venus.) On top of this, all the ancients portrayed these celestial bodies as human beings. Well, almost all. While Cronus lived a mortal life, Zeus never did. He sent his son instead.
ALL the ancients had beliefs like this. This is not idolatry. It's what they then did about it, corrupting the teachings, that became idolatry. Thinking that their statues were actually the very gods they worshiped was idolatry. Otherwise, their teaching was correct: Celestial beings lived on earth in human form, and Paul as much as validated this belief that day. Of course, he also as much as said so in 1 Corinthians 15:35-50.
And Joseph did, too, in D&C 88:42-62. (You *do* get the meaning of the Lord moving around the 12 servants, right?)
And one more thing. One of those Gods was missing. They were all accounted for but one, the one after whom the hill itself had been named: Ares, Aris, Hercules, Heracles, Perseus, Perkwunos, Sussanoo, Horus, ... Mars.
And that's whose statue was missing.
But what planet was implied by that ?
The red one.
The one that comes out of the east.
The one with a wound in his side.
The one with the marks of the nails.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A conversation on facebook from about mid 2019...

Someone: I never really thought about it before but I find it interesting that religion dates the world to about 6,000 years ago and science dates civilization to around 6,000 years ago and laughs at religion.

He: You're totally totally totally missing the point an any idiot on here who agrees with you needs to go back under their rock!!!! The New world the new night sky after the upheaval caused by a shifting solor system which happened in the last 10 thousand years is what religion is based on,, ALL holy books are B@#$%^&*!!!

Me: 'scuze me?! Is this mature, civilized behavior? What do you know about religion? Probably even less than you know about science or history. Please express yourself with more honesty and decency.

If holy books 'merely' chronicle the evolving solar system, then perhaps it's not the ancients which misunderstood science, but you who misunderstands religion.

Try reading the Book of Enoch. If you have any sincere, rational questions, I'd be happy to answer them for you. But only if you can behave yourself like a grown-up.

He: Your right I apologies for my tone!! However I'm just getting sick an tired of religion been shoved down my throat when it's quite clear it's simply fabricated,, to me it's like a movie that says "based on a true story" you know there is some legitimacy to it but 90% of it is made up!! Again I apologise for my earlier tone!✌

Me: Really?! Shoved? How tragic to have to share the world with those harboring opinions differing from your own. I think that, if you honestly read the positions of the leading lights of this movement, you will find that they unanimously denounce attitudes like yours, being victims of it themselves.

He: When I say "shoved" I was not necessarily implying it to you individually just in general

Me: I know what you meant; the same sham I get shoved down my throat all the time, everywhere I go. Look, no one anywhere is shoving anything on you, except maybe the LBGTQ lobby along with the rest of the leftist mafioso. They're shoving things on you. But no one else is. Everyone else is just defending their own positions, probably against attacks from you, and/or those like you. So, if you want peace, make peace, and prove your academic impartiality.

Granted, the faithful have done a poor job of bridging the language gap, but, the fact is, that you and your ilk haven't helped. Spend some time reading those 'scriptures' you so deride, remembering that mythology was the scripture of its time and place, and you will begin to see how our ancestors were desperate to communicate to their descendants, through incomprehensible trauma, those things they felt of greatest importance to mankind, a word whose meaning is itself fraught with knowledge now secret to the world only because the world has lost touch with, and dismissed their fathers' accounts.

You may also discover why it is that every serious archaeologist is very, very well versed in all ancient records, including the Bible, or, rather, especially the Bible, but also the Vedic writings, and all mythology.

They know what they're doing. You should, too.

Finally, there is one thing you, and everyone else should understand about all of this, all mythology, all scripture, all history. And that is that the ancients, all of them, were unanimous in two, overriding beliefs, and they were that, a) there was for them no distinction between science, religion, and state, and that b) we did not come from the stars, WE ARE THE STARS. Enoch even explains how these 'beings of fire' can 'appear as men on earth whenever they wish', and that through a process he calls 'translation'. And that, like the word, Mankind, should also me meaningful to you.

Should.

But probably isn't.

And that means that you've got a lot of studying to do to catch up. But, if you do, you'll know more about God and his universe than 99.999% of all religious followers, and even leaders. And the result of that will be that you, too, will begin, not only defending that faith, but chastising all those others who profess to know, but clearly do not. Especially those who profess to 'know' that "ALL holy books are B@#$%^&*!!!", or that "it's like a movie that says "based on a true story" you know there is some legitimacy to it but 90% of it is made up!!"

It's not made up. It may be encoded. It may sound cryptic to us now. But some of it, like Enoch, is fully decoded and explained, as he himself tells us, which creates a real dilemma for us today, because the things he wrote, they just can't be ... except in an electric universe.

By the way, you should also reflect on just why it is Enoch predicts that the time will come when no metal will be safe to handle, forcing Mankind to bury it all in the earth again.

Ever wonder why the most ancient peoples built with stone even though they clearly knew where to get copper, tin, and even iron, and how to make tools of them?

And Enoch attributes this to the presence of God.

Now, just what can he possibly have meant by that?

He: I believe the world now manipulates an misunderstands our father's accounts,, as I said there is truth to these scriptures but I believe they have been totally misunderstood!!

Me: Ok. THAT we can agree on.

Me: And those misunderstandings are what we're trying to sort out here ... politely.

He: I've got a very short video I would like you to look at but I'm struggling to get it here on the comments, it's blends scripture with EUT! It's about 3 mins long, I'll see if I can get it over! No talking just ancient text an diagrams!

Me: I look forward to it.

He: https://www.facebook.com/anthony.e.larson/videos/10153726801151817/

Me: Tony was a good friend of mine since 1990.

He: Well this for me is how it's misunderstood, I believe the scriptures are true just manipulated as a way of controlling the masses!

Me: How does this help the author control the masses? Why would they want to? Why were the scriptures even written in the first place?

He: Modern man has manipulated the texts not the original authors!!! Our ancestors simply told an recorded events in our ancient night sky for it to be totally used in later years to control people,, that's essentially what the holy books are they are the first form of law if not followed you burn in hell!! The modern bible was written by king James!! Says it all really

Me: I agree, there have been alterations, but not the ones you imagine. But, now we have the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Nag Hammadi library to help sort things out. And, of course, if you're a fan of Tony's work, then you should be aware of other materials which help clarify things.

Mazzaroth was left untranslated, using hapax legomenon as an excuse to feign ignorance, when, really, they could have pretty easily divined the meaning of that word from similar words. But, to do so, would have pretty strongly underscored the Bible's cosmic connections, and that was just too uncomfortable for them. Otherwise, the King James translators did a pretty respectable job. It's the even more 'modern' translations that concern me, and they weren't made to cover up cosmology, but rather to obfuscate corrupt politics and politicians, as well as the 'priests' who endorse them. As Q has said, those we trust the most are guiltiest.

http://theunknowngod.info/Isaiah32~5-8.html

Yet someone else: Well, you seem to know your ancient texts better than me and I'll defer to your judgement which seems sound. I notice your bible interpretation talks a lot about economics. I focus on research into future or past better economic systems. Google "the hOEP project" if you are interested in a new kind of modern economics that seems to have strong supporting evidence in ancient text AFAIK. I only skim read your bible quote because I'm not a personal fan of the bible and grew up with in an environment of fundamentalist Evangelical christian religious intolerance. But, I have had people point out that the economic solutions I propose are also endorsed by the bible and many sacred texts. Did you know that there is economics research showing how sellers can make more profit by giving more charity to more poor people? If that's interesting to you, and you know of bible citations or ancient texts talking about economics science as supporting evidence to what I propose then let's talk private and PM me? Economics science as supported by ancient text might not be on topic for EU, so PM is probably best. I'll PM you. Upvote this if you get the PM and want to chat that way. Thx.

Me: Yeah, I've read all that, and it's all smoke-n-mirrors, based in the same sort of wishful thinking as the collectivist theories, namely that everybody does what you think they should.

The actual economic order of the nation of Israel, after the Exodus, and before the the kings, was, as far as I can tell, the best, and most successful system outside our own. And that system was a modification of earlier systems, much as the Law of Moses was an adaptation of the Code of Hammurabi. And that modification was actually, believe it or not, anti-superstitious in nature. Read Bel and the Dragon for more details, but, essentially, where Nebuchadnezzar's priests had taken on the role of what we today call the globalists, the cabal, the deep state, and/or the bureaucracy, Daniel took on the role of a Ron Paul, exposing the priest's bogus religion, something one might not think appropriate for a devoutly religious guy. But, how that system worked, is so alien to people today, that they would simply reject it. People were free to do whatever they wanted within some very unrestricting laws. If you dig a hole and walk away from it, cover it up or put up a very visible warning. Things like that. Otherwise people were encouraged to donate to the temple. Those donations, unlike those offered to Dagon, were very honestly dedicated to the support of the temple and the priests. No nonsense about some idol eating them. And what was left after that was distributed to the poor, which is why you so often read about the poor hanging out around the temple.

But, and these are the crucial difference between their system and everything else, a) they had private property that was theirs forever. Your land was held in a family trust, and it could not be taxed, levied, held in escrow, or any other clever device for taking it from you. You could rent it, but after seven years, all special arrangements ended, and the land was yours again.

And b) they didn't use 'money'. Not in the sense we think of it. They used coins, but those coins were certified in weight and purity. And that was the governments job. Just as in our own Constitution. Not that anyone cares or even remembers. So, basically, they were trading. You might trade your wool for someone else's grain. You might never even resort to your coins, but, if you do, you're still trading something of value: Gold. Or silver. Or copper. Or tin. And how does the government tax that? It doesn't. The offerings made to the temple have to cover it. And that was the whole argument against having a king in Israel. But the people wouldn't listen. They wanted all those things. In essence, they wanted redistribution of wealth.

Now, look at some place like Egypt. Accepting the Bible's version, Pharaoh wasn't always an absolute monarch. Joseph, believing Pharaoh's dream was God's way of authorizing him to become a king, engineered Pharaoh's legitimate purchase of all the land, animals, and people. All except the Israelites and priests. This is how we know that the previous economic system was liberty, and that this system translated to Israel after the Exodus. And that Exodus was prompted by a new Pharaoh who presumed to alter the deal and enslave the Israelites, too.

And all of this underscores another theme hardly ever noticed in the Bible, and one which ought to make you reconsider your antipathy towards it: Intelligence.

There was a reason Pharaoh favored Joseph and his family. Pharaoh was an educated man, Egypt being the home of the mystery schools (later even teaching Solon thing he didn't know), and, as an educated man, he would have very well understood the value of having intelligence, competent people in his government. This is repeatedly declared to be Joseph's primary attribute, the second being his beautiful eyes, and generally comely appearance. Presumably, this, too, was a familial trait. When we look back at Abraham, we see the same intelligence when he challenges his idol-making (to the king) father on the logical inconsistencies in his career. And again with the circumcision, which was a more rational solution than the castration others were practicing. For various reasons.

It's all about intelligence.

Intelligent people observed the universe around them, and recorded it. But, just as the Greeks miraculously divined the aether underlying all creation, so, too, did the authors of scripture miraculously, I would say divinely, come to understand that the universe is no inert, inanimate object, but rather a living, breathing thing with a mind and a purpose. And it communicates that purpose to those who are most capable, most intelligent, most diligent, and most willing to accept, and live by the laws of nature, and nature's God, understanding that we are no animals, but rather something higher, with a nature and laws transcending the rest of nature.

Me: Oh, by the way, since you expressed your view of what all religion is based on, allow me to express mine, and it's in the very word, religion, re-legio, re-tie, re-bind, reunite. But, reunite what with what?

All true religion ultimately seeks to answer three questions: How did we get here? Why are we here? What happens next? Or, rather, Where are we going?

Scripture is supposed to answer these. Along the way, the Why are we here? is answered by expecting us to create the best of all possible worlds, by building civilization, by maximizing mankind, and preparing for calamity, something nothing else in nature has the intellect to do. And that's what such rules for living as the commandments are for.

But, there's another purpose intrinsic in all that, and that is the elevation of the mind. And all throughout our history one reads of this evolution, this struggle, of mankind to reunite his mind with the universe's. This inspiration has been written of by all the authors of all scripture, the idea that one can tap into an even higher intelligence, and receive not only raw information, but even enhanced analytical prowess. And that prowess leads to the single greatest mystery in all of this, and that is the dichotomy of time and eternity.

I think many are finally beginning to accept the idea that the universe is both eternal and infinite. And those who reject such notions as impossible are finally beginning to be exposed as just as biased by finite human intellect as they accused superstitious aboriginals of. (See: Frazer's The Golden Bough.)

And this is what all true religion (which, of course, excludes such aberrations as Scientology) is really based on.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


~ A conversation with a missionary in the field ~

He: Hello Marcus. I just read a post by you from a few years back about the dangerous direction our church is headed in.

Me: How do you feel about it?

He: Im a missionary right now.
I've been out 10 months.
I have developed a deep love for the scriptures and have read them and studied them so much since I've been out.
And the more I read and study the scriptures, the more problems I see in the church.
I've been feeling like the church is heading in a bad direction for a while. I completely agree with your post.
We have stepped away from so many things taught by Joseph Smith and taught in the scriptures

Me: Yes. But why?

He: Our church has been feminized.

Me: Yes. Too many people think of Christ as a bearded girl.

He: 😂 "President Brigham Young conversed freely on the situation of the saints in the mountains, and said he dreaded the time when the saints would become popular with the world" (Heber C Kimbal JoD V.9 p.154)
"President Young said he had seen in sorrow, in a dream, or in dreams, this people clothed in the fashions of Babylon and drinking in the spirit of Babylon" (ibid)

Me: Yep.

He: What do you think about COVID vaccines?

Me: Unnecessary and dangerous.

He: 👍

Me: I had the bug. I lived.

He: 👍

Me: Why get a vaccine, too?

He: The church won't let me go to my original mission unless I get the vaccine.
The new mission policy is so corrupt.

Me: What's too little-known in the church is a BoM doctrine that the Lord will let every person, and the 'church' itself do what they/it wants, even if it destroys them.
Remember when both Mormon and Moroni were forbidden from teaching the people, so they just what ... ?
MINISTERED!

He: 👍 What's our latest direction?

Me: MINISTER!
The corruption of the church isn't coming from the prophets, but from the members.
I remember one of the apostles, Mark E. Peterson, his job was to deal with the many lawsuits being filed against the church.

He: Idk the whole vaccine thing came from the 1st presidency.

Me: Because he has to appease the Karens in the church, and in the world.
Remember how we lost polygamy?

He: 😭 Why does he though?

Me: The temples had to be protected from the government, so he submitted to the law of the land.

He: Yeah sad, I think it needs to come back eventually before the second coming to build Zion. What about you?

Me: It's what Christ commanded his APOSTLES.
Basically he told them, "I'm sending you out like lambs among the wolves. Protect yourselves. Be armed. BUT ... don't make any sudden moves. Don't give them any excuse to kill you. Don't use those weapons except as a last resort, and as a defense against renegades. Submit to the government."

He: 👍 Just before.

Me: Remember who John the Baptist was. It says in scripture that he restored all things. That makes him an Elias, a Joseph Smith, a dispensatory prophet. But, just as with Christ's first coming, that prophet came just a few months in advance, not years.
It's good to talk to you, BTW.

He: ❤ What's your point?

Me: We won't see a full restoration again until just before Christ's return.

He: Perhaps they'll be those two high priests in Jerusalem.

Me: By the way, ... from here: The Second Coming and the Millennium, Chapter 21, comes this ...
"Judah must return, Jerusalem must be rebuilt, and the temple, and water come out from under the temple, and the waters of the Dead Sea be healed [see Ezekiel 47:1–9]. It will take some time to rebuild the walls of the city and the temple, etc.; and all this must be done before the Son of Man will make His appearance. There will be wars and rumors of wars, signs in the heavens above and on the earth beneath, the sun turned into darkness and the moon to blood, earthquakes in divers places, the seas heaving beyond their bounds; then will appear one grand sign of the Son of Man in heaven. But what will the world do? They will say it is a planet, a comet, etc. But the Son of Man will come as the sign of the coming of the Son of Man, which will be as the light of the morning cometh out of the east [see Joseph Smith - Matthew 1:26]."
That phrase, 'signs in the heavens above' almost certainly refers to meteor (mid-air) showers.
This is cosmic.

He: Interesting

Me: One of the things that's gone wrong with the church, because of the members, is that prophecy is no longer studied.
Anthony E. Larson's Prophecy Classes

He: Yes I've started that. I've watched the first 3.

Me: I knew Tony. I was crushed when he died. He opened my eyes to so much. But, I think I opened his, too.
My own web-site: To the Unkown God

He: ❤ What is heavenly father's name?
Why can't I click those?
Can you teach me about the cosmos?

Me: Not all articles are written yet. I put those entries there to remind me to write them.
Yes. I can teach you. First lesson, watch the old movie, It's a Wonderful Life again.

He: God is a galaxy and Clarence is a star?

Me: God is the Universe ... kinda.
We were all 'celestial' beings, with 'celestial' bodies, as Paul says.
We came to this earth to obtain our 'terrestrial' bodies, as Paul calls them.
We hope to return from this, our second estate to our first estate.

He: God has a body and looks like us no?

Me: Yes. And we are like him: We each have two bodies.
3 Nephi 11:8

He: What's our celestial body look like?

Me: A planet, a star, maybe you're just a meteor.

He: God is a planet?

Me: Yes and no.
Some of us are entire solar systems.
'God' is Elohim, which means the Gods and the Goddesses.
The All.
Everything.
Aka ... the universe.
But not just the visible universe.
The power behind it, too.

He: But in Luke 24, Jesus celestial body is flesh and bones and he walks and eats and talks like a man

Me: Yes, but who is Jesus?

He: God's son

Me: So is Adam. Who is Jesus?

He: He is God.

Me: That's code language. Decode it.

He: Mars

Me: Ok. This is how it works.
Elohim is everything, the whole body.
Remember, the elements are the 'tabernacle' (body) of the spirit.

He: 👍 Joseph Smith said God is an exalted man

Me: And he is, but you're spelling that wrong.
Read that link I sent you.
Look for the word, man.
What's the case?

He: It's capital.
Man not man

Me: And what does that mean?

He: We capital pronouns for God like Him, His, He, Man?
That's my thoughts

Me: No. This is the only place in all known scripture where a proper noun is used to describe 'a being'. It should also appear in Revelation, but it's been corrupted.

He: What does it mean?

Me: It was written wrong in the first edition of the BoM, too, and Joseph had to have it corrected later.

He: 👍

Me: It means that 'Man' is a person, with a title, and is not alone. There are other 'Man's out there.

He: Son of man?

Me: Man is a planet: Saturn.

He: Does that have to do with us?
Wow. That IS it. Nothing else even matters.

Me: Remember the scripture which says that 'flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God'?

He: Ya
So when I'm resurrected, I'm gonna become a planet?

Me: Remember the prophets who wrote (paraphrasing) 'I don't know where I was, but flesh and blood can't go there'?
They are always on a mountain when they meet God.
But it's a mountain no one can find, and never finds again.
Remember the mountain that went to Mohammed?
Remember Mount Zion?
Remember mount Sinai?
And, more importantly, remember mount Shelem?
Take a few minutes to read this: Shelem (because of its exceeding height)
I have to get back to work.

He: Joseph wasn't in 1820
You think this isn't a real mountain? But it actually means this thing?

Me: Yes. And yet, it is a mountain, formed through processes similar to the mountains we climb today.

He: Ah! Was Joseph NOT on a mountain?

Me: Where was he?

He: In a pillar of light

Me: A grove.
What was the Garden of Eden?
What grew there?
Trees!
It was a grove.
And it stood on a mountain.
That's why Adam and Eve 'fell'.

He: The sacred grove is not on a mountain

Me: Where is it?

He: New York

Me: Yes, and, supposedly near their home.
But no one really knows where.
Just like no one can find the stone box the plates were in.
Just like, when D&C 76 was received, only Sidney saw what Joseph saw. Everyone else saw and sensed the power, but not the vision.
What was going on?
Was that Sidney? I always get the names wrong.

He: 👍 Were other people in the room when the vision was received?

Me: Yes.
But Joseph and Sidney were really somewhere ... and SOMEWHEN ... else.

He: Joseph just said he went in the woods near his home and that's where he saw God in 1820.

Me: And, just as with Ezekiel, he was suddenly transported.
Just as with Daniel.

He: Ok that makes sense because when the vision ended he woke up on his back in the grove.
He must have been transported huh?

Me: Yep.
He was also physically weakened.
It's exhausting.
That's why all the prophets who meet God on his mountain say things like, 'I was just walking down the road, minding my own business, suddenly, I was way out in space, looking down on the earth.'

He: ❤

Me: Look up the allegory of Sarah and Hagar.
There are TWO mountains.

He: Ok I think I'm beginning to grasp it.

Me: And they are 'represented' as the two pillars outside the door of the temple, one north, the other south, one gold, the other silver.
I really need to work.
Read this: My facebook article describing God.

He: Why didn't Joseph say he was transported somewhere in 1820 first vision

Me: Didn't he? Maybe we just fail to 'get' what he's telling us.
After all, where is the Hall of Records?

He: What's that?

Me: You need to learn all these things. Don't be like Hans Mattson.
https://josephsmithfoundation.org/hill-cumorah-cave/

He: Very good.
Yeah I know about the cave, I have never heard it called the hall of records before.

Me: Many call it that because there were supposed to be more plates there than Joseph got.

He: It's inside the hill cumorah according to Brigham young in that second photo I sent you.

Me: But ... where was it? Clearly, it wasn't in any hill in the area.
When he says that the hill opened reminds me of 'the vision opened' and 'the heavens opened'.

He: Hmmm
Why do you think the repository isn't just inside the hill.

Me: Because every hill in the area has been pretty thoroughly dug up, dug into, x-rayed, etc.
No one ever found anything.

He: God hides his secrets

Me: Yes. But how?

He: So the Nephite prophets had access to this portal to a hall of records also?

Me: It's as I wrote, the hill Mahonri mined the quartz from was not the same hill he met Christ on.
Where was Ether?

He: Does it say that?

Me: He's the one who wrote the sealed portion after all.
That's what I'm trying to say in that article: They are, and yet they aren't. Something 'eternal' is happening that we don't understand.
Genesis 49:11-12
The face Jacob saw was seen by others, too, hence that Polar Configuration picture you posted.
But here's the Mayan version.

He: I believe God is an eternal being who looks like us. Two arms two legs. He weeps over wickedness and rejoices for the righteous. He can hug and laugh.

Me: Notice the red face, white teeth, four beasts around the 'throne of God', the jaguars' claws holding 'the only acceptable sacrifice to God' (broken and contrite hearts).
Yes. He is.

He: 👍

Me: But, we are more than we see now.
We are more than mere mortal beings.
We descended from above in order to take ownership of these mortal vessels.
We hope to return to what we were before.
That's the celestial kingdom.

He: What were we before?

Me: Celestial beings, aka spiritual beings.

He: What does that look like?

Me: I don't remember, but ... Christ and the BoM left lots of clues about this. For example ... what did the wise men follow?

He: The resurrected Christ has flesh and bones and looked like a human. He walked and talked. Isn't that a good description of a celestial being?

Me: Yes he did. No it isn't.
What did he tell Mary?

He: Touch me not.
I haven't ascended to my father

Me: Exactly.
So, just being resurrected isn't it.

He: Why did he say that I've always wondered?

Me: But that leads us to another issue.
My article is broken. Hold on...
The Riddle

He: Can you tell me what a b and c are?
Mars, Venus, and Saturn?
Why is the middle one biggest

Me: This is a reproduction according to the memory of ... forgot his name. Philo Dibble? Notice the angle at the bottom. It's wrong, too.
But you see this same thing, as well as a LOT of other cosmic imagery on the roof of our new conference center.

He: Yeah I've seen it.
It's way cool.

Me: What do you see?

He: More than that.

Me: How many levels?

He: ?

Me: Three

He: That's all I see.

Me: What's the bottom circle?
How is it different?

He: A blue dome.

Me: Crystal

He: Crystal yes good description.

Me: ... and the earth shall be a crystal, a urim and thumim to those who live on it.

He: Oh my gosh!

Me: Notice the pyramids in the ring.
How many?

He: I thought those three on the roof were supposed to be Mars Venus and Saturn?

Me: No. Venus, Mars, Earth in their ancient arrangement.
With the earth on the bottom ... LAST.
But, the last shall be first.
The Nine Worlds of Yggrasil
This is where the Christmas Tree came from, and why Christianity had no problem with accepting it.

He: 👍 Interesting

Me: The balls hung on the tree are the planets.

He: 👍

Me: The star on the top is Saturn.

He: ❤

Me: The candles are the stars of the Milky Way.

He: ❤

He: The star on the top is Saturn? Isn't the star Venus?

Me: Also.
And Mars ... the APPLE of His eye!

He: Oh wow!

Me: Wanna see the cosmic allegory of Christ?

He: How did they know to build the conference center like that?
"Wanna see the cosmic allegory of Christ?" Yes please

Me: Will you believe it's him if I show you the marks of the nails?
Will you believe it's him if I show you the wound in his side?
Will you believe it's him if I show you his red robes and face as described by Jacob in Genesis 49:12?

He: It's mars?

Me: Mars

He: You think Mars is Jesus?

Me: Allegory
Just like the allegory of Sarah and Hagar.
They aren't mountains.
And, yet, they are.

He: Where are the nail marks?

Me: If the almighty creator of heaven and earth and all 'things' which in them are can be a human being, then why can't he be a planet, too?
Ships
For that matter, why can't he be all the planets, and the space between them, too?

He: So he is a planet and also a human?

Me: We all are.

He: How am I a planet?

Me: That's what it means to be a 'Man'.
Do you really think you're here?
Nikola Tesla - My brain is only a receiver.

He: So the nephites didn't really see a human descending out of heaven? It was actually a planet?

Me: Until he got down to where planets no longer go (not without a lot of destruction, anyway). Then he was a man.
A veil has been drawn over our minds. That veil is our flesh. We can't see through it back to what we were.
We think we're here.

He: So Heavenly father is a planet right now? And he can change into human form?

Me: This is the ultimate virtual reality simulation.

He: Sounds like sci fi

Me: Was Moroni a resurrected being?

He: Joseph Smith said so.

Me: So, where did he go? Did he settle down? Get a job? Marry? Finally have some kids?

He: Can you answer this?

Me: Yes. I can. I just did. Where did Moroni go?

He: I hope so, that sounds nice

Me: NO! Of course not!

He: Lol I don't know.

Me: The 'gods' have power over life. They can take up their bodies, and they can lay them down again. They only need their bodies here.
Flesh and blood can NOT go where they go.

He: But flesh and bones can.
Blood is mortal.

Me: Yes, BUT flesh and bones is code language. Your body is like your car: You leave it in the garage.

He: I have never heard this idea before nor have I heard any prophet or scripture imply what you are telling me this is interesting but I'm not gonna throw it out yet.
So I'm gonna be a planet one day? I'm confused.

Me: Look up the myth of Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha, aka Noah and his wife.
The 'bones of their mother' that they are told to cast over their shoulders are stones.
Curiously, geologists have recently discovered that the earth has a rock skeleton.
Remember when Christ told the Pharisees that 'God can raise up of these stones children to Abraham'?
He was alluding to the myth of Deucalion and Pyrrha.
Which is cosmic.
Christ did that kind of this a LOT.
Like when he told his disciples to see the man with a pitcher of water. You can practically see them pull up short and say, "Uuummm.... ok. If you say so. Go and see Aquarius. Got it. Don't know why, but, whatever you say."
Earth Skeleton, Scary Solar Forecast, Venus Change | S0 News May.4.2021
Come Follow Me with Casey Paul Griffiths (Doctrine and Covenants 63, June 7-13)

He: So what has caused you to believe that a "celestial body" is a planet? That God is a planet?

Me: ALSO ... a planet. And the word, God, is also like the word, faith: There are multiple definitions. When we say, God, do we mean the Father? The Son? The Spirit? The Godhead? Or the Grand Council of the Gods? All are God. Remember the scripture Christ told the Jews: "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" Or, as Nibley used to ask the class, "Who's speaking?"

He: ❤

Me: Also, all religions are based in cosmology, which is why they all, even ours, involve themselves in what we, today, think of as science and astronomy. That's why we know about Kolob, that spirit is also matter, just more fine and pure. And, in fact, we know science that exceeds all the science of men. Just look at the battle over the DNA of the native Americans. National Geographic even had to grudgingly admit that they do, in fact, have DNA from 'western Asia'. Even when admitting the truth, they had to obscure it. 'Western Asia' is the middle east, just as Joseph Smith told us.

He: ❤

Me: Mystery of the Planetary Gods - ROBERT SEPEHR
Who destroyed the Jaredites?
As for what caused me to believe that a celestial body is a planet ... just look that term up. Miriam-Webster: celestial body
D&C 88:51-60 are about the orbit of Jupiter around the Zodiac.

He: I think that "celestial body" could have more definitions than just a webster dictionary.
That idea isn't supported by the teachings of the prophets.
"D&C 88:51-60 are about the orbit of Jupiter around the Zodiac."
Hmmm I'm not making the connection there I just read it.

Me: Yep. That's what most of us do. But, look at the clues. "Beginning at the first, and so on unto the last, and from the last unto the first, and from the first unto the last;" What does that mean? Does 'last unto the first' mean that he reverses direction? No. It means that he repeats the cycle from the beginning again. First to last, then, starting over again, first to last again. Therefore, this is a circular cycle.
Then there are the 12. 12 have traditionally meant the Zodiac, hence the 12 tribes of Israel (and also of Ismael, too, by the way).
Did you watch that video?
"That idea isn't supported by the teachings of the prophets"
Says who? Show me any teaching that says otherwise.
And, remember what I said about what a 'man' is. A man has both a celestial and a terrestrial body, as Paul says.

He: I don't have access to YouTube right now but I will watch it later.
What is the Zodiac?

Me: The Zodiac is a set of 12 constellations of stars around the ecliptic of our solar system. The great questions are, who defined them, and how, and why?
The ecliptic is the 16 degrees of sky, 8 degrees north + 8 degrees south, that our sun passes in front of as we orbit it.
The Zodiac and ecliptic, together with the wobble of the earth result in what is called the great clock, or the Platonic year.
The great clock is the time-keeping mechanism described in scripture as 'times and seasons'.
One cycle on the great clock equals about 25,800 of our current years.
This works out to 72 of our current years equaling one day on the great clock. And a day on the great clock is about 1,000 of our years. Hence 'the day of the Lord being a thousand years'.
But, again, who destroyed the Jaredites?
Sorry. I wrote that wrong. One MINUTE on the great clock is 72 years. Thus 'men' live but a minute (moment) on the earth.

He: 👍

Me: And one hour on the great clock is a thousand years.
There is, in scripture, a repeated reference to 3.5, which refers to a timeline of about 91,000 years. That's our real timeline.
Revelation 12:14
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
The woman is the earth, our heavenly mother. So says Moses 7:48. So, our heavenly mother is a planet, the planet earth. If you ever again hear anyone say that we don't know the name of our heavenly mother, read them that. We don't call them mother earth and father sky for nothing.

He: "But, again, who destroyed the Jaredites?"
Who did destroy them? I thought they destoyed themselves.

Me: Exactly. And yet, what's the first thing Moroni tells us at the opening of the book of Ether?

He: Hand of the lord

He: So ... who's God? Us?
The Jaredites?

He: Its poetic language

Me: Oh, please!
There are very few places in the BoM where poetry is employed.
Think The Psalm of Nephi.
But, since you mention it ...
Why are ALL scriptures written as songs/poems?
Did you know that, for example, the great Isaiah scroll is a poem?
The Norse Edda is a poem.
The Kalevalah is a poem.

He: The whole book of isaiah is poetry no?

Me: Yes.
In fact, it's a song.
All real scripture is a poem.
Why?

He: Maybe because poetry can hold symbolism and metaphors and stuff to veil the meanings?

Me: NO!

He: Hmm well I guess I have no idea then.

Me: To the ancients, a 'perfect' book was so correct, that it even rhymed.
This is why all liturgies, until modern times, were sung.
Our first language was song.
Some languages still do this.
Thai, for example, must be sung.

He: My dad speaks Thai.

Me: This is where our vowels come from.
Ask him.
Same words that say How are you, sung at the wrong pitches, can mean, You're a good horse.
We originally sang.

He: 👍

Me: And true scripture was proven true because it even rhymed, and could be sung.

He: 👍

Me: Like a ... HYMN!

He: 👍 So does the BoM rhyme in egytian?

Me: It would have, except that they modified the Egyptian (which was really Greek).

He: Who modified it?

Me: They did. They had to. For multiple reasons, one of which was the tight space of the plates. Another was the difficulty of writing. Apparently, their hands weren't as dexterous as their ancestors, for some reason.
But, Joseph, proving, yet again, that he was a true prophet, also left us poetry.
Joseph considered D&C 76 to be the pinnacle of his revelations.

He: Why is moroni so concerned about his weakness in writing in ether 12?

Me: We aren't told, but it has something to do with their hands.

He: "But, Joseph, proving, yet again, that he was a true prophet, also left u…"
Where? Is the d&c poetry? I haven't noticed.

Me: Ok. Give me a minute to write this next reply.
Joseph considered section 76 to be the pinnacle of his revelations.

He: Also I want to know why he thought this

Me: I'll tell you.

Me: Joseph repeatedly referred to 76 as 'the' vision.
And, when you think about it, it is very unique in all of known scripture from any prophet from any land.

He: 👍

Me: Nowhere else to we get such a detailed description and definition of the heavens.

He: 👍

Me: And hell.
Nowhere else in all of known scripture do we have any revelation that was received by TWO witnesses at the same time, AND was recorded by witnesses in the same room at the same time.

He: So only joseph and sidney saw the vision yet there were others in the room. How does that happen?

Me: 76 is a bona fide miracle in and of itself.

He: Why did sidney apostatize after seeing the most grand vision of all?

Me: Read it! This is that episode where they had to take a break for Sidney's sake. Joseph, wrote one of the witnesses, looked as fresh and vigorous as a lion.
Sidney looked beat up and haggard.
When asked about this, Joseph just replied that Sidney was not as accustomed to it as he was.
AAAAnnnddd!!!
Joseph also gave us 76 as a poem!

He: ❤ Nephi says that the spirit weakened his body and ammon fell to the ground because he had no strength.

Me: And he even named the poem what he always referred to it as: THE VISION!

He: 👍

Me: The Vision
Yes. That's what happens to us when the spirit of God leaves us.

He: Joseph also gave us 76 as a poem!
It rhymes? I haven't noticed

Me: The Vision
XMA Header Image

He: "Yes. That's what happens to us when the spirit of God leaves us."
Leaves us or comes upon us very strongly?

Me: SEVENTY EIGHT stanzas!
THAT is poetry.
That is a poet.
By the way, what does Paul tell the Athenians?
"For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring."

He: ❤

He: Yes I actually just read that verse yesterday and was wondering why he referenced poets.
Poet=prophet?
He: 1 nephi 17
"Behold, I am full of the Spirit of God, insomuch that my frame has no strength."

Me: Yes. To the Greeks. In fact, to all the ancients. Poet=prophet. That's why the poet/prophet Paul was referring to was Homer, the author of the largest piece of chiasmus we know of.
Me: This is also why Paul referred to himself as the 'prisoner' of Christ, the 'servant' of Christ.

He: Was homer a prophet?

Me: The name, Homer, means captive, prisoner, servant.
ProphetS!
There were multiple 'Homers' (prophets).
They were the prophets to the Athenians.

He: Do you believe Russell nelson is a true prophet.

Me: Yes.

He: Why?

Me: Because he's behaving exactly as a prophet must under the circumstances.
Why?
Don't you?
Are you hoping for prophecy from him?
You won't get any.

He: I believe he is but I have my doubts. He doesn't compare to Joseph smith at all or any of the other past prophets
"Are you hoping for prophecy from him?"
Yeah why not? I've been wondering that.

Me: Joseph IS a dispensatory prophet. You only get one of those at the beginning of each dispensation.
And Joseph even told us back in his time that the church was under condemnation for failing to fully keep the Book of Mormon.
This was his response to critics who were spreading the rumor that he was a fallen prophet.
They decided he was fallen because the revelations had stopped coming.

He: One mighty and strong. Who is that?

Me: According to Joseph Smith, that's the bishop of the church.

He: And Joseph even told us back in his time that the church was under conde…
He: But that was back in 1832.
Many revelations and miracles happened after that still.

Me: But, of course, that's also cosmic symbology.
Yes. And the BoM is also one of the trumpets, right?
But there will yet be all seven trumpets, and they will be very literal sounds that all mankind will hear.

He: "But there will yet be all seven trumpets, and they will be very literal …"
Yeah I've read Anthony larsons take on the trumpets. Interesting

Me: But you've just breached the subject at the very heart of the church. And I'll have to be very careful with you here. There are doctrines which have been taken from us. You can discover them easily enough if you study with the spirit, but you and I are forbidden from teaching them.

He: Really? Can you teach me?

Me: I can point you to the questions. I am forbidden from giving you the answers.
D&C 88 should be tied to D&C 76, imho. They are very, very closely related.
"Which glory is that of the church of the Firstborn, even of God, the holiest of all, through Jesus Christ his Son--"
Who is the firstborn? As opposed to the only begotten?

He: Adam

Me: Very good.
Where is the church of the firstborn?

He: Is adam God? I've been thinking about that a lot.
"Where is the church of the firstborn?"
In the celestial kingdom

Me: "Is adam God? I've been thinking about that a lot."
I may not answer that.
The church of the firstborn is the temples.
Temple, tempus, time.
Eternity itself, the Father of time, the Father of lights.
This is why the words, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, are bolted right on the chapels, but never on the temples. On the temples, those words are bolted to the fence around the temple, or a plaque in front of the temple, never directly on the temple.
Why?

He: The temple is the church building not for the LDS church, but for the church of Adam?

Me: Correct.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
But why?
You don't get to the temples except through the chapels.
You don't get through the doors of the temples except by going through the fence first.
The temples are the domain of the God of time.
This is why the ordinances performed in the temples transcend time, while those performed in the chapels are bound by time.

He: ❤

Me: Hence Christ's own description of himself as Alpha and Omega, beginning and end, limited, bound by time.
And this is the core of the church, and, in fact, all religion: The curious relationship between time and eternity.
And this is the reason there are some things which just will never make sense to a 'temporal' human mind. We will never 'comprehend' them until we re-enter eternity.

He: Is this mortal life not part of eternity?
"You won't get any."
Also I'm curious why you said this.
"This is why the ordinances performed in the temples transcend time, whil…"
Very cool actually this is good and very interesting
Is freemasonry evil?
Why is the occult involved in the planets and astrology?
[Joseph's Jupiter Talisman] What is that? Supposedly joseph smith had it on his person at his death
Is this mortal life not part of eternity?

Me: Yes. Of course. But just part.

Me: Also I'm curious why you said this
Me: Same as Joseph told us. Same as He Taft Benson reiterated. We've failed to keep the BoM as well as we could have. Thus, we/the church, are still under condemnation. Want to fix that? STUDY!
He: ❤ Me: Very cool actually this is good and very interesting
Me: This is why Spencer Kimball explained the mission of the church in terms of time: Spread the Gospel. Perfect the Saints. Redeem the dead. But that's backwards. Joseph Smith would have put redeeming the dead first. He even said that was our primary, and most important mission. But why those three? Because of the relationship between time and eternity.
Me: How so?
Me: What are you doing when you do the temple work for your ancestors? You're reaching through the tomb, into the past, to rescue those who came before you.
Me: What happens when you perfect the saints? (Which is what I'm trying to do now.) You're reaching across the pew, across the now, trying to rescue those who came with you.
Me: What happens when you spread the gospel? You reach through the womb, into the future, trying to prepare a soft landing for those yet to arrive, trying to save them.
Me: Past, present, and future.
Me: Of course this would be the mission of the church bound by time. And temples would be the only way to achieve that mission.
Me: This is why Christ is referred to as the God who was, and is, and yet is not, and who will be. Past, present, and future. The God of Time.
Me: By the way, this is also why King Arthur is referred to as the 'once and future' king. He was the ancient Britons' version of Jehovah/Christ.
Me: The BoM tells us that God has given unto all lands and peoples as much truth as they are able to receive.
Me: It also tells us that he has taken truth away from people when they don't keep it.
Me: Is freemasonry evil? Why is the occult involved in the planets and astr…
Me: Freemasonry is not evil. But there are evil Freemasons. Their organization has been infiltrated just like the Catholic church has been. The Baptist church, too.
He: ❤ He: Same as Joseph told us. Same as He Taft Benson reiterated. We've fai…
He: Yes I like that
Me: Define occult! Just because it doesn't fit the Evangelicals' or Catholics' ideas of what religion should be doesn't make it occultish. All 'occult' really means is hidden. And we hide plenty by keeping it in temples, or forbidding it from being taught at all.
He: ❤ He: The BoM tells us that God has given unto all lands and peoples as much t…
He: Where? I like that
Me: What is that? Supposedly joseph smith had it on his person at his death
Me: That's a Jupiter talisman, and perfectly in keeping with Joseph's mission and teachings. Notice the shape. Now look at facsimile 2 again.
He: How has the baptist church been infiltrated?
Me: Like any other organization. Evil people manage to work their way up the ladder. Then they bring in their friends. Soon, the whole head is dead and rotting. The Baptists have been deeply involved in the human (especially child sex) trafficking in Haiti and all of Latin America, and Africa.
He: 😮 He: That's a Jupiter talisman, and perfectly in keeping with Joseph's missio…
He: They are both circles. They both have an "X" near the middle. What am I missing
Me: Saturn
Me: Notice the rings.
Me: The Father AND the Son.
He: The facsilime doesn't have that circle with the x through it
Me: Kolob = Saturn
He: Kolob = Saturn
He: Yeah I heard that a while ago. I'm still thinking about ut
He: It
Me: Look closer.
Me: They both have an X.
He: They are both circles. They both have an "X" near the middle. What am I …
He: Yeah I said that
Me: On the talisman, the X has the 4 Galilean moons at the ends.
Me: On the facsimile, X marks the spot where God sits, the throne of God. Saturn is also the throne of God.
Me: Venus is also the crown of glory.
He: X on the mountain.
He: What is the 3 Crest squiggly line
Me: Not sure what you're referring to.
Me: You mean the line over and around the X?
He: You mean the line over and around the X?
He: Yes
Me: Two things. 1) God is shown twice, back
He: Look up the "serpent mound" in Ohio that was made by the nephties. It is that same exact shape
Me: -to-back, squatting/sitting, knees up in front of him.
Me: But, this same image also represents the three mountains, the middle mountain being the highest of the three, and his.
Me: Look up the "serpent mound" in Ohio that was made by the nephties. It is…
Me: Yep. It's ALL cosmic.
He: But, this same image also represents the three mountains, the middle mou…
He: 3 kingdoms of glory
Me: By the way, when Joseph gave us that, he had to finish the drawing where there were holes in it. To do this, he put another piece of paper behind the facsimile, and sketched in the missing image. When they copied it, someone let the paper slip. That's why the head(s) of God no longer sit properly over his body.
He: Ohhhh that makes so much more sense. So that double sided head should be directly over the head?
Me: 3 kingdoms of glory
Me: Sorta. Mountains and planets went hand-in-hand. Saturn's 'mountain' was the highest. That's the 'mountain' Mahonri met Christ on.
He: Directly over the x***
Me: Yes.
He: By the way, when Joseph gave us that, he had to finish the drawing where…
He: How did they copy it? They didn't have a copy machine
Me: You should research what Heinrich Schliemann found at 'Troy'.
Me: How did they copy it? They didn't have a copy machine
Me: They sort of did. They made woodcuts by hand. And the person who got the image didn't know what the proper position should be, so they guessed. Remember, they also didn't have tape, so Joseph couldn't tape his paper in place. You had to hold it in place.
He: So is there other things messed up about it, or just that one thing
Me: That's the only real error. The other facsimiles also had to be completed by Joseph, and critics have said that he got it wrong, but then more were found that showed that Joseph's was correct after all.
Me: But all this is secondary.
Me: Primary is this:
Me: God is.
Me: I find that this is the most correct way to say it in our language, he being past, present, and future. God is.
Me: And we know this. Or we should. Because Joseph Smith is all he claimed to be, all the good things others have claimed him to be: Prophet, Seer, AND REVELATOR (the greatest of the three), the head of this dispensation, a restorative prophet, an Elias of God, one of the seven holy angels who always behold the face of God.
Me: And we know this, too. Or we should. Because of the thing that Joseph gave us: The Book of Mormon, a miracle in itself, a teacher of truths no one on this planet dares teach any more, a record of Christ visiting the peoples of this continent, a record of Christ teaching again things he taught the Jews, a chronicle of a people who prospered when they obeyed him, and failed when they didn't.
Me: And we know this, too. Or we should. Because of that miracle within a miracle, that small thing by which great things are brought to pass, the one thing no one ever makes more than passing mention of, the thing which ties together the importance of time and time-keeping, of the planets and the stars, that thing which turned up just at the time it would be needed most, but then faded from view, and even from mention, that ball, that director, that little, brass, mechanical device with two spindles, one of which was a compass, the other we're never told, but which any student can figure out for themselves, that thing which might have kept this nation imprisoned by England, had they only recognized its worth: The Liahona.
Me: But ... WHY?
Me: What was the Liahona really?
Me: Something like this: http://www.antikythera-mechanism.gr/
XMA Header Image
Antikythera Mechanism Research Project
antikythera-mechanism.gr
Me: The Liohona was a pocket watch with a compass in the lid, THE essential navigation tool. And the antikythera mechanism is proof that the ancients had such magnificent devices. The wording of the BoM shows that it required winding, which is why, when Nephi's hands were bound, it quit working. This is how they knew exactly how far/long they'd been blown back on the sea. This is why it is we find no mention that Laman or Lemuel or anyone else ever touched the Liahona, and may have not even known about it.
Me: So, just as God destroyed the Jaredites, God also prepared and delivered to Lehi the Liahona. Who else appeared at the same time? ISHMAEL and family. My bet is that Ishmael brought it with him, and, upon seeing the situation, decided it best to just 'let it turn up' right in front of Lehi's tent door, ensuring it didn't end up in anyone else's hands.
Me: But where did Ishmael get it?
Me: Well, as it turns out, the king's warehouse (national bank) was in a state of confusion, the captain of the guard having disappeared, and the guards on duty wanting a shift change, and a dead, naked and headless (and, thus, unidentifiable) body having turned up in the city (and you know what the law required of them when that happens), so no one was watching the safe-deposit boxes. And, when the boys went to get Ishmael, he very likely knew right where to get that device that he would have certainly known about, and knew that Lehi understood and could operate, so he walked right in, and walked right out with it. And no one else would have even known it was missing because no one else even knew it was there, or what it really was.
Me: And that device is what allowed the Lehi party to navigate both uncharted deserts, and unchartable seas, always knowing right where they were on the globe, in what land they were, and which way they were going.
He: Im gonna have to come back and read this in a couple hours when I have time I'll get back to you but thanks for typing this all out I really appreciate it, learning is my passion
Me: I'm glad to hear that. I'm always here for you.
He: ❤ He: Is joseph one of the seven angels?

Gabriel (noah
Raphael or
Samuel or
Etc
Me: Yes. My bet is that he's Raphael.
He: And the voice of Michael, the archangel; the voice of Gabriel, and of Raphael, and of divers angels, from Michael or Adam down to the presen
Me: He: So one spindle pointed north. What did the other single point to?
He: What are the writings on the ball
He: How did it work according to their faith
Me: It was a pocket watch. It has hands that point in the direction of the sun. Look it up.
Me: Like I said, faith has multiple definitions. The PRIMARY definition of faith is NOT sticking with something no matter what. The PRIMARY definition of faith is what we call erudition, book learning. That's why/how we can/must move from faith to knowledge.
Me: It's one thing to 'know' (believe) that atoms are made up of electrons, protons, and neutrons. It's another thing to prove it, to use that knowledge, and have it actually work out the way you expect. Then you really know it, and don't just believe it.
He: 👍
Me: This is how Elijah was able to prove God to the priests of Ba'Al. He knew what he was doing, how God works. They didn't. They were false priests.
He: 👍
Me: This is how faith worked for the Lehi party. So, imagine this. Lehi finds the 'ball' (Ba'Al) outside his tent the very morning after his sons return from Jerusalem with Ishmael and his family. Is there an instruction manual? No. In order to use it, one must already 'know' how. Lehi probably knew about these 'directors' although he may have never actually seen one before. But he had read in a book ... book knowledge.
He: 👍
Me: Lehi: Wind the watch, wait till the sun is directly overhead, set it to noon, and it's ready. Nephi: Ready for what? Lehi: Ready to tell us our longitude. Nephi: How? Lehi: The earth is round. Nephi: Yeah, I **read that in a book**. Lehi: Yes, but, the earth spins making it appear to us that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Nephi: I read that, too. Lehi: Good, now, if we read the time on this clock at exactly noon every day, we'll know the exact distance, east-or-west we are from Jerusalem. Nephi: Wait, what? Explain that to me again. Lehi: The point of this watch is to show us the precise angle of the spinning earth to the sun. That angle shows us the distance between where we are and where we were when we set the watch to noon. Nephi: AAAAAHHHH! I get it now.
Laman & Lemuel (the twins): WHAT?! You think you know how to wave your hand and make that thing tell us where we are?! OMG! We're all gonna die in the desert. (No faith/understanding.)
He: 👍
Me: And, when Nephi is able to guide them directly and accurately to distant locations using the Liahona, the trouble stops. At least regarding directions. So the gruesome twosome have to think of something else to complain about.
He: 👍
Me: As for the writing that changed, my watch has windows or 'eyes' on it. The writing in these changes with time. If I were out in the wild, and the word 'STORMS' (November) appeared in one of those windows, I'd be terrified, too.
He: 👍
Me: Or maybe the word 'SNOWS' appears in the window. Or 'FLOODS'. Or 'HEAT'.
Me: All of these are the names of months in their system.
Me: OUR months were just numbers. And, by the way, we used to only have 10 months. That's why the last 4 months of our calendar are called the 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th (September, October, November, and December). So, the real question I have is ... How many months did the Liahona have?
He: 👍
He: Like I said, faith has multiple definitions. The PRIMARY definition of …
He: This is very interesting concept of faith. Is there scriptures that say this? I kinda like it
He: This is how Elijah was able to prove God to the priests of Ba'Al. He kn…
He: How did he figure that out? And how did he call down fite
Me: AH! HE DIDN'T!
Me: This is the great deceit.
He: He knew it was coming down anyways and planned accordingly?
Me: Read a book by Frazer called The Golden Bough. Frazer goes all over the world, researching all the most primitive religions, assuming they're the roots of current religions. He as much as concludes that primitive man was a superstitious, ignorant, savage. If he wanted rain, he sprayed water in the air. If he wanted less rain, he threw dirt in the air. And just look at the island cults, like the plane cult. The primitives there, having seen, and even ridden in WWII planes, now make plane altars, and parachute jumping gods, and things like that.
He: 👍
Me: But, what Frazer overlooks is how mankind got higher knowledge than such primitive people. What Frazer doesn't understand is Abraham. (Aba=father, Ra=light, im=plural ... Father of lights!) Abraham was the original genius of our telestial earth. Abraham knew how stupid idol worship was. Abraham's religion was ... SCIENCE.
He: ❤
Me: But, where did he get that epiphany from?
Me: This is why we must always thank God for all the knowledge we're given, because all knowledge comes from God.
He: ❤
Me: God put our spirits in us.
Me: More importantly, and what Frazer just can't grasp is that sometimes God takes one of us up to him, gives him new knowledge that no one else ever had before, something no one could have gotten even from the best books, something only God knows.
He: 👍
Me: This is the importance of seers and revelators.
He: 👍
Me: This is where kingship comes from.
He: 👍
Me: It was said that kingship was first handed down from heaven in Eridu. But what does that mean? It means that a man came who was more intelligent, more capable than everyone else. He just knew how to do more, how to plow and plant better, or how to irrigate better, or how to build a city better.
He: 👍
Me: It was said of Nimrod, the rebel, that God gave him the knowledge of the bow and arrow.
He: 👍
Me: You should look it up some time. Bows and arrows are far more technical than most know. And some peoples stole the idea from others, but never found out the technical details of how to make them better.
Me: Look up North Sentinal Island.
June 25 at 10:30 AM. Original message:
This is very interesting concept of faith. Is there scriptures that say …
He: What about this
Me: They're practically cavemen, and murderous, much like the natives Columbus encountered, much like the Lamanites became, which was why Mosiah was so worried about Ammon.
He: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
He: Hebrews 11
Me: What about this
Me: Yes. Read Joseph Smith's lectures on faith. VERY interesting book, mostly because of how it's written. The only one to have tests in it. Because he's talking down to us like we're children. And we are. Because we obviously haven't understood something as simple as faith.
He: Okay I have that book I will read it
Me: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things n…
Me: Things hoped for have no substance. Things not seen have no evidence. So what is he saying?
Me: How do we know there are electrons and protons?
He: How do we know there are electrons and protons?
He: Study, experiment
Me: Because we see the evidence of them in cloud-chambers.
Me: We've never seen one. It may not even be possible to see one.
Me: We can't see it, but we believe it's there. We have faith.
Me: Likewise God.
Me: We see the evidence of his presence and power.
Me: We 'know' that he's there.
He: What is the evidence of God and the knowledge of him you can gain from study that increases faith
Me: Atomic physics is a good place to start.
Me: Did you know that all of nuclear physics is in disarray right now?
He: I dont think Elijah or joseph smith or joseph of Egypt had a knowledge of atomic physics
Me: Ah, but they did. God showed it to them, just as he showed it to Abraham. More importantly, he taught them electricity, the 'power' of God.
He: How can I learn about all this like then
Me: Did you know that the ark of the covenant was a giant capacitor?
He: 😮
He: Them*
Me: You're already on the right path. Just keep going. And remember to never accept as gospel what 'scientists' 'know'.
He: Science had been completely subverted by the Great and Abominable church.

I dont know how to sort through all the science
Me: True. And all the real knowledge is still locked up in our DOE labs, and anyone who starts learning too much either disappears into the government labs, or is disappeared into the ether.
Me: But much knowledge can still be found. The spirit still works, and can help you discern.
He: Disappear in the ether? What does that mean
Me: They're killed.
Me: Follow the clues.
He: Have you heard of Joe cells
He: And orgone energy
Me: Orgone, yes. Nonsense. Joe cells? Never heard of it.
He: I thought Willheim Reich was on to something with his orgone experiments
He: What does it mean to have the 'faith' to he healed?

The 'scholarly knowledge' to be healed?
Me: No. Look up Eric Dollard. He has a lot of knowledge, even though he's quite insane.
Me: Faith to be healed... well, for one, it means understanding that God can actually command the very cells of your body to start obeying again. It means understanding how the same matter can be made of on spirit one minute, and another spirit the next minute. It means understanding that medicine isn't all there is, but that God does expect us to use what we have before we turn to him.
He: The pharmaceutical industry is completely corrupt. Rockefeller ruined it in the 1800s.
Me: https://youtu.be/1pjKxWgtK6M
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Atonement 2018 v1
youtube.com
Me: Einar C. Erickson just died recently, so you might want to get his audio talks while you can before his website is gone. https://www.einarerickson.com/
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Home - Ancient Mormon Doctrine Scholar Dr. Einar C. Erickson
einarerickson.com
Me: Tony died a couple of years ago, but his son and wife keep the web-site going. Still, you should buy all his lessons, and read all his blogs. https://mormonprophecy.com/
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Mormon Prophecy – Decoding prophetic imagery and metaphor in revelation, the scriptures and temples.
mormonprophecy.com
He: ❤
Me: As for Elijah... Why did he chose green wood and water instead of dry wood and oil? Dry wood burns better than green wood, doesn't it? Oil burns, but water doesn't, right? Unless the fire we're talking about is electrical. But what would the priests of Ba'Al know about electricity? They don't even know what lightning is. Elijah was basically building a lightning-rod, while the priests of Ba'Al were building an insulator, guaranteed NOT to be struck by lightning. And fire from heaven is, after all, lightning. See? These things are right there in scripture, but, when you read them, you assume it must be talking about something no one knows anything about, something miraculous.
He: ❤
Me: And THIS, by the way, is why we hear so much 'health-n-wealth' gospel taught in the church today instead of the real gospel of science. Too many members are just as ignorant as the priests of Ba'Al. The see things in the scriptures that just can't be, at least to their minds and prejudices, so they try hard to find something to 'have faith' in. And, God bless them for trying, but what they should be trying for is the spirit to let the scales fall from their eyes so they can see what's right in front of them, like the fact that angels aren't really our friends. They don't like us much. And that Christ was far more drill-sergeant than diplomat. His own disciples are repeatedly said to have been afraid to ask him questions.
He: ❤
Me: This is why you hear some people say, out loud, in church, that the Book of Mormon isn't literally true; it's 'spiritually' true. But Hugh Nibley used to say that that word, spiritual, wasn't the only one to be abused by the LDS, but it was the most abused of all terms by the LDS.
He: 👍
Me: And, if you want to know what he meant, just read 1 Nephi 22:1-3.
He: ❤
Me: What's Nephi telling his brothers? He's telling them that they misunderstand this word, spiritual. He's saying that spiritual things is not a 'thing'. The spirit communicates. The spirit testifies. The knowledge comes from God over the internet, the 'cloud' of the spirit (which the Jews, by the way, called the Shekinah). But what comes is knowledge, and that knowledge is about very real things, things of this world.

He: ❤ "Tony died a couple of years ago, but his son and wife keep the web-site …"
My brother bought all the lessons and is doing them right now
"As for Elijah... Why did he chose green wood and water instead of dry wo…"
That's soooooo cool wow I can't believe I never thought of that, it seems so basic.
Angels dont like us?
Why not? Who said?
And yeah I noticed that about christ. I just finished reading the 4 gospels this morning actually and noted how harsh and straightforward jesus is.
Me: "Angels dont like us? Why not? Who said? …"
The brethren wanted to see an angel, so Joseph gathered them in the temple, and instructed them how to pray to see an angel. While they were praying, someone opened the door at the other end of the room and walked in looking very put out, and demanding to know what they wanted. They never asked that again.
Brother Brown, President Young's secretary, was in his office in the temple or church office building one day, and had brought his young son with him. The boy asked if he'd ever seen an angel there, and brother Brown replied that, "If an angel were to appear in this room, I'd jump right out that window there." They were on the third floor.
There is no time in scripture where angels appear that isn't bad for someone. We don't have a lot of records of this, because they didn't live to tell about it. Just look at what happened to Alma the younger. When angels don't come to kill us, the very first thing they ALWAYS have to do is calm us down, and reassure us that we're safe.

He: Angels are supposed to be full of love and charity.
That doesnt seem right that they would dislike us.
"The brethren wanted to see an angel, so Joseph gathered them in the temp…"
where can I find this story?
Me: Even when it's not bad news, it's exhausting. Remember the night Moroni visited Joseph? It was the next day when he collapsed from exhaustion. And, by the way, Joseph shared that room with a couple of his brothers, but neither of them heard or saw anything, just like when the others in the room saw the light on Sidney and Joseph, and felt the power as section 76 was received, but they didn't see the vision.
He: ❤ Where can I find this story?

Me: I'll have to look. It's been a while.

Me: "Angels are supposed to be full of love and charity …"
Define love. Define charity.
Me: "That doesnt seem right that they would dislike us. …"
Celestial beings look on mortals and mortality something like you look on your days in diapers. Want to go back to that? Want to have to deal with that? Why do you think Christ washes their feet? It disconnects them from this earth, AND condemns the earth, like when missionaries 'kick' the dust of a city off their feet.
Me: There is enmity between heaven and earth. That's yet another reason Christ coming to earth was such a big deal.

He: Thanks for all that.
I really enjoy learning from you thanks for taking the time to message me

Me: You're welcome. You've read that scripture, '... how great will be your joy'? Well, that's the joy I feel that you enjoy this. Thank you for bringing me joy.

He: ❤ "The brethren wanted to see an angel, so Joseph gathered them in the temp…"
How does one pray to see an angel?
In 3 nephi 17, angels come down and minster to children. Why would they do that and why would that be a positive thing if angels dont like mortals?

Me: There are angels and there are angels. They are not all the same. Consider the angel who 'troubled' the waters at the pool of Siloam. Did anyone see him? Did he have a body? Was he there to interact with humans?
There are also different abilities to perceive angels. Remember what Joseph said about the second coming. The world will only see a planet/comet. And yet, that's Christ.
It's also a matter of knowing what you're looking at. Joseph said that, if we could gaze into heaven for five minutes, we'd know more about it than had been written in all the books. Well, the first thing to consider was that telescopes were very rare in his day, so no one could really gaze into the heavens. He, Sidney, and other prophets, like Abraham, got a guided tour. Sadly, even if we could gaze into the heavens for 5 minutes, I doubt we'd get out of it what Joseph got out of it. We're just not Joseph. This is why, later on, he spoke of having spiritual eyes.

He: What are spiritual eyes?
"There are also different abilities to perceive angels. Remember what Jo…"
Christ will come as a man. With two arms and two legs and a face and fingers.
Do you know much about Nikolai Tesla?

Me: Yeah. Why?
He: I would like to learn more about what he discovered. His work really is interesting
Me: "Christ will come as a man. With two arms and two legs and a face and fin…"
Me: When he's at our level.

Me: "I would like to learn more about what he discovered. His work really is …"
That's a long, long conversation.

He: Send a voice recording haha
Me: Maybe e-mail?
He: Well I don't want to make you type out a ton of stuff
Me: I already have. It'd be a lot easier in e-mail than in this messenger app.

He: Okay email me
someone@missionary.org
"When he's at our level."
What do you mean?

Me: Remember the definition of a 'man'. Human bodies don't fly through space.
You need your celestial body for that.
He: "Remember the definition of a 'man'. Human bodies don't fly through spac…"
Human bodies travel through space in birkeland currents.

Me: No. They don't.

He: Or God can do whatever he wants. He can teleport through space if he wants.

Me: God obeys the laws of nature. If he ceased to obey the law, he would cease to be God.

He: So a planet descends near to earth and then it transforms to a man and descends through the atmosphere to ground level?

Me: This is why prophets who are taken up to the throne always say things like, I don't know whether I was in the flesh or in the spirit, but flesh can't go where I was.

He: So you think God is literally Saturn or the sun

Me: "So a planet descends near to earth and then it transforms to a man and d…"
Saturn is Man.
Jupiter is the son of Man.
Saturn is Kolob, Michael.
Jupiter is the son of Man.

He: I thought Mars is.

Me: Mars, in the mythology, is the only begotten.
Mars was seen descending to earth.
You have to read the book, The Hero with a Thousand Faces.

He: So mars and Jupiter are both the son of man?

Me: Yes and no. Mars is seen as the physical incarnation of Jupiter. That's what the red spot is about. They are often used interchangeably in mythology.

He: Hold up. Pause everything.

I want to learn about the book of Genesis. I just heard Larsen say it's all symbolic and it's a cosmic parable which makes so much more sense. I never believed that genesis was literal.

But larsen never went on to explain
Me: You need to read Galations 4
Me: It's not just symbology; it's allegory.
Me: The scriptures use allegory a lot, like when Aaron is contending with Jannes and Jambres, the serpents, rods, etc.
Me: That's all allegory for a debate.
Me: Now, the garden of Eden story is about Mars and Venus, and their celestial wedding, fall from Saturn, breakup around the earth, etc.
He: Help me figure out on my own what the book of genesis actually means and what the temple actually means. That is what I want to know
Me: We can go to the temple if you like. Wait, where are you?
He: I'm on a mission in Colorado
Me: OH, right. I used to live a mile from the temple, but now I'm in Indianapolis.
Me: We'll need to start calling. There's just too much to write. Are you allowed to talk to me?
Me: And not tonight. I'm in bed now.
Me: 317-827-5563
He: We'll need to start calling. There's just too much to write. Are you a…
He: Agh I wish but my companion wouldn't like that.

There is a voice recording button at the bottom of the screen near the text box if you are open to sending me voice recordings. It makes it easier
He: So Adam is a real person correct?
Me: Yes. As was Abraham.
He: So genesis isn't completely allegorical
Me: This is another of my beliefs that differ somewhat from Tony. I believe that there was a reason that the ancients believed 'as above so below'. I believe that the ancients saw parallels between celestial events and terrestrial events. So, for example, we had 'first' parents, first in that they were the first to have that spirit of God (breath of life) in them.
Me: But the Eden story contains, and answers, so much more. Like, for example, that gender is literally older than time. Recall that 'time' did not begin until their expulsion from the garden.
Me: Current gender roles, or what SHOULD BE current gender roles, however, are only as time itself, having not been established until after the expulsion.
Me: Gotta go.
Me: Perhaps you've heard tell of 'pre-Adamites'?
Me: https://josephsmithfoundation.org/faqs/science/23-pre-adamites-were-there-pre-adamites-or-pre-human-beings-prior-to-adam-being-placed-upon-the-earth-was-adam-a-cave-man-are-the-worlds-teachings-about-how-language-and-civilization/
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23) PRE-ADAMITES: Were there "pre-Adamites" or pre-human beings prior to Adam being placed upon the earth? Was Adam a cave-man? Are the world’s teachings about how language and civilization progressed accurate?
josephsmithfoundation.org
He: I don't believe there were cavemen or Neanderthals
He: I believe adam was the first man
He: I dont believe in evolution
Me: Very good. No evolution ... as you think of it.
Me: The fact is that 'gradualism' was debunked by the evolutionists themselves decades ago, but no one ever hears about that. The current theory that the working, field biologists operate on is called punctuated equilibrium. And PE is almost identical to our creation story.
Me: But, there were cavemen. We've found them. They lived in caves. But they weren't human. They were apes. Smart apes, but still just apes.
He: 👍
Me: Can you watch youtube videos?
He: Can you watch youtube videos?
He: Yeah
He: The fact is that 'gradualism' was debunked by the evolutionists themselv…
He: Interesting
Me: And their argument 'made reason stare': Gradualism is simply NOT to be found in the fossil record.
Me: https://www.facebook.com/gaius.maximus/posts/10220128436985242?comment_id=10220148787453991&reply_comment_id=10220480894556461¬if_id=1624810148372968¬if_t=feed_comment&ref=notif
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area51.org
area51.org
Me: https://youtu.be/N8_7GRnQCX8
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Come Follow Me with Casey Paul Griffiths (Doctrine and Covenants 71-75, Jun 28-Jul 4)
youtube.com
He: https://youtu.be/N8_7GRnQCX8
He: What is this
Me: A video series that's quite popular among the members. This one's about section 76 and the church of the firstborn.
He: The son of man and the only begotten are different people?
He: The church of the firstborn is Jesus. Not adam
Me: Jesus is not the firstborn. It says so in scripture.
Me: The Son of Man are different only in the same sense that Michael is different from Adam, and Gabriel is different from Noah.
Me: Think of the only begotten as the avatar of the Son of Man, so much so that he even refers to himself as the Son of Man.
Me: D&C 88:5 Which glory is that of the church of the Firstborn, even of God, the holiest of all, through Jesus Christ his Son--
He: The Son of Man are different only in the same sense that Michael is diff…
He: This is too deep for me now I dont get it. We will circle back later
He: D&C 88:5 Which glory is that of the church of the Firstborn, even of God…
He: Is this the scripture that says jesus is not the firstborn?
He: 👍
He: Does that circle have significance?
He: June 27 at 10:54 PM. Original message:
He: Is that decoration or is that the wheel of heaven, the circle and square?
He: Is it the same thing on the conference center roof?

Who designed the kirtland temple and but that circle thing there
He: How does circumcision suppress the natural man "80%" like you said?
He: What does this mean ?
He: So according to Joseph, the Lord permitted them to perform baptisms in the river while they were building the Nauvoo Temple, but they were warned on multuple occasions not to be slothful about building the temple and it needed to be completed by a certain date or neither it nor their dead baptized in the river would be acceptable to God. Several months before Joseph's death he announced in a general assembly of the church that their work for the dead was no longer acceptable before God. Lyman Wight testified thereafter that it was obvious to everyone that this meant the time for completing the temple had passed and that they failed. He was later excommunicated by Brigham for holding this position and that the Lord had taken Joseph from their midst as a further consequence of their condemnation and apostasy.
He: That's a message from a friend. He holds the position that baptisms for the dead have been unaccepted by God since Joseph died
He: Also I don't have access to email right now for the next few days
Me: I'm not familiar with that. I'll have to research it.
He: D&c 124:28-34
Me: Whoever's telling you that stuff is deceiving you. It only means that baptisms outside a temple AND outside the grace period will not be valid. There's nothing so earthshaking in that. Besides, it would be completely uncharacteristic of Christ or God to put an expiration date on salvation. That would be like those who believe God would condemn unbaptized children.
He: Is that thing true
He: Is it real
He: Also what do you think about this :

https://youtu.be/pTuu6Y6C0o4
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"The Carthage Conspiracy"
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Me: Is that thing true
Me: I believe so. It would certainly explain a lot.
Me: Is it real
Me: If true, it *was* real. Something that isn't emphasized anymore, but which you can certainly figure out for yourself based on what Peter said about the old world having passed away is that things change over time. Peter even condemned our modern, gradualist beliefs as erroneous. And we really shouldn't have them at all anymore. I mean, just look at punctuated equilibrium. That practically screams out that catastrophism is the only viable view of history. So, anyone who tells you that such a sky could never have appeared over our ancestors' heads because things just don't work that way is clearly uninformed, and can be safely ignored, no matter their credentials.
He: ❤
Me: Also what do you think about this : …
Me: I've added it to my playlist. I'll let you know. It may be a few days. I have a lot of material to work through. I was, for example, just today reading the Martin Luther translation of the Bible, in German. I have my reasons. I'll let that gnaw at you for a while, though.
He: ❤
He: Joseph smith always talked about the German translation of the bible
He: He said it was more correct
Me: Which one? Why?
He: You've never heard that?
He: He said the German bible is more correct than the english
Me: Socratic method again. I'm teaching by putting the question in your mind. There were at least 4 'German' Bibles at the time. Which one was Joseph referring to? And why was it the most correct, according to Joseph. He explained why. Part of the answer can be found here: http://www.theunknowngod.info/Epistles/King%20Follett%20Sermon/index.html
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To the Unknown God - Epistles - King Follett
theunknowngod.info
Me: More can be found here: https://scriptures.byu.edu/tpjs/TPJS.364.pdf
scriptures.byu.edu
scriptures.byu.edu
Me: Trust me; you're going to like this. (BTW, I'm of primarily German stock, and grew up in Germany.)
He: 😮
He: More can be found here: https://scriptures.byu.edu/tpjs/TPJS.364.pdf
He: I just looked at this. I'm not understanding the point or the significance with it
He: Also what do you think the mark on Cain was
He: I heard Anthony Larsen say something interesting...he said the ancient israelites were all blond hair and blue eyes
Me: I just looked at this. I'm not understanding the point or the significan…
Me: I believe Joseph was referring to the Lutheran Bible. I believe this because a) all other German translations had pretty much been eclipsed by Luther's, and b) because of that curious comment Joseph made about the honesty of the translators.
Why's that?
As far as I can tell, Martin Luther only fudged in one place in his entire translation. Otherwise, his translation was completely honest and correct.
How do I know?
Martin Luther believed we are saved by grace alone, that there's nothing else that we can or ought to do to earn that grace. And that's the one thing he fudged. Where it says that we are all saved by grace, he inserted the word, alone. He even claimed that that's the only way it works in German. I grew up in Germany. I speak German. I know that he's wrong, unless, of course, his mind was just so obsessed on that idea that he just couldn't even see it otherwise.
But, and this is the truly important part, Martin Luther's honesty caused him to grasp in the sermon on the mount something that few people, even LDS, ever grasp at all, and that's why the most correct of all books, the BoM, adds, "... who come unto me ...": "Yea, blessed are the poor in spirit who come unto me, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
Now, why is that important?
It's important because, with those words, who come unto me, all ambiguity is removed. With those words, the rest of it can no longer be misinterpreted as some paen to the self-pitying, clinically-depressed, morose, mopey, wet rags among us. Instead, it becomes impossible to mistake it for anything other than what it is: A call to repentance.
But Martin Luther didn't need that. Martin Luther read the words, "blessed are the poor in spirit", and very rightly understood that this was addressed, not to those who are feeling overwhelmed, but to those who have too little of the Holy Spirit. In other words, the wicked. To all of us, actually, seeing as none of us is sinless.
And, when one reads Christ's words that way, the rest becomes clear. This is a soul, repenting, and progressing, their 'eternal' progression, turning from a selfish, inward focus, to an outward, selfless focus, or what Paul would call charity, enduring the persecution which comes from such selflessness.
And, notice also, that the last promise is identical to the first: "...for theirs is the kingdom of heaven"
Now, for the kicker. Remember I said that Martin was a 'saved-by-grace' guy? This is how I know just how honest he really was, that other fudge notwithstanding. Martin Luther, having recognized what no one else seems to have seen, openly ridiculed the sermon on the mount as a masterpiece of the devil. He said that Satan had somehow managed to slip that in there, pretending to be the savior himself. BUT... it was there, and there was no denying it, so he left it there, no matter how much he disbelieved it.
By the way, Luther also loathed the book of Esther. He felt it had no place in the canon, and wasn't even holy in any way. Apparently, he wasn't the first. When the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, every book of the Old Testament was found among them, at least once, except for one: Esther.
Looks like whoever left us those scrolls would have had a lot in common with Martin Luther.
How's that?

He: ❤
I heard Anthony Larsen say something interesting...he said the ancient i…

Agreed. In the Book of Jasher, it even mentions how smitten the Egyptian women were with Joseph's 'beautiful eyes'.

He: ❤
Also what do you think the mark on Cain was?

I think the mark of Cain was the same thing as the Lamanites were cursed with: Dark skin, lazy attitude, enviousness, bitterness, superficiality, and blaming everyone else for their problems.
That said, there are some things which must be said about that. First is that American blacks are not really black anymore. Even Cain's children were, technically, only half black. And, while it is a predominant trait, with enough fair admixture, it eventually subsides. American blacks were mixed with whites almost from the beginning. You need to listen to Thomas Sowell's video about the Irish in America. Blacks in America don't get their white ancestry because 'da massa dun had his way wid the house girl'. They have their white ancestry because, King James took it to be a act of treason that the Irish refused to join the Church of England, preferring to remain Catholic. So King James went through Ireland like a chainsaw. He killed the men, sent the children to the workhouses in England, and all the girls and women to the Americas as slaves. And they were so plentiful that a buyer could get ten Irish women for the price of one African slave, so they would buy five Irish women, one African, and 'mate' (rape) them.
And what they were really doing, they hardly knew. You see, the Irish women couldn't endure the harsh conditions everyone lived under, but the Africans could. Even better, the 'mulattos' could, too, but the mulattos were more intelligent, could grasp complex instructions better, and were even more tractable. But these things would backfire on the south. That same intelligence, that same white blood, would give them some of the fiercest foes they'd ever seen. Fredrick Douglas, for example, had, thanks to his white father, even more white DNA than most of his contemporaries, even though he, too, still looked very dark. And there were even brilliant examples outside the US, such as Alexander Dumas.
But, don't be too hard on the southerners, or Christopher Columbus, or even on the Arabs who first brought African slaves to Spain. They had their reasons. It was the 'nubian' Africans who reignited the war between the Moors and the Visigoths in Spain, culminating in the Spanish Inquisition, making them very unpopular with everyone. So the Moors, eager to make peace, offered to turn over the trouble-makers to the Visigoths as slaves, as gifts, as peace-offerings. Thus, it was really Spain who brought slavery to America, and Arabs who brought slavery to Europe, and Africans who fed the whole machine.
If you want to see what kind of people Columbus, the Arabs, and the Visigoths found themselves confronted with, you can't look to Booker T. Washington, George Washington Carver, or even any of the modern Africans, seeing as 500 years of colonization has brought a lot of European and Chinese admixture to them, too. No, to see what started it all, you have to look to North Sentinel Island. THAT is who the slaves used to be. THAT is what Columbus encountered down in the islands. And THAT is the mark of Cain.

He: 👍

http://www.theunknowngod.info/Epistles/Dark%20Roots/index.html
By the way, this is what the BoM's parable of the vineyard is really all about.

You're talking about jacob 5?
So you really believe that God just changed the skin color of all the lamanites overnight? How is that even possible?

No. Although I do believe that the body follows the spirit, I also believe that the body will take over when/where the spirit fails to.
Ever notice that the Jaredites never tell us which son of Noah they descend from? But they do say that they came from the same time and place of the great tower, and that was built by Nimrod, son of Cush, son of Ham, making him, presumably, the grandson of Egyptus.
Parley P. Pratt also thought so.
Moreover, I believe that there were other Jaredite survivors besides Coriantumr, although they probably didn't see themselves as Jaredites. And the reason I say this is that Jaredite names appear in the BoM before Mosiah translates the Jaredite record.
BUT ... then there's Ishmael.
Remember that the Nehpites were of the tribe of Menasseh, even though they were living in Judea. Judea was a fairly cosmopolitan place at the time, with lots of foreign people and practices. As the episode of the naming of John the Baptist shows us, you just didn't name boys after anyone who wasn't in their family tree. Thus, no child of Isaac would have ever been named after their great father's chief antagonist, Ishmael. And vice-versa.
Ishmael was the son of Hagar, a Hamitic princess of Egypt, basically tossed to Sarah as compensation for what they'd put her through.
I believe Ishmael brought that DNA with him, even if it didn't show.
And then there's Zoram, already a slave to Laban of unknown ancestry, who, in the great parallel between us and the BoM, clearly plays the role of the Africans, 'pressed' into joining them. And, who knows but what he actually was Nubian. He wouldn't have been the only one in Israel. And notice that he even gets stuck with the oldest daughter of Ishmael, not that we ever hear of any complaints over this until the betrayal of the Zoramites.
And then there's the fact that the twins, Laman & Lemuel, are clearly the children of a different, perhaps now departed, wife of Lehi.
So, my point is that, not only do we have a very diverse DNA pool among the Lehi party from the outset, but they even move into an area with Hamitic DNA already present.
And, as we see between the Japanese and Koreans, the Han in China, the Tutsi and Hutu in Rwanda ... they perceive differences we seldom see. But, where the Han do tend to see themselves as superior to all the other Asians (and who's to say they're wrong) (It's really all about what they do for the others that matters.), the other Asians don't seem much disposed to retaliate against them for this. The Hutu, on the other hand, could hardly portray Cain any better in the way they vilified the Tutsi, claimed the Tutsi oppressed them, and went on a murderous revenge campaign to 'right wrongs' never actually incurred. Much as the invading Bantu did to the whites in South Africa. Just as the Lamanites did to the Nephites. And always for the same reasons: Someone with more 'natural man' tendencies in them feels slighted by the fact that he's inferior to, and shunned by, those who are (take your pick) taller, narrower, lighter, more attractive, more intelligent, better organized, ... more blessed of God than they are, so they determine to level the playing field.
And, just as the Nephites saw happen, it won't matter for long if your entire society interbreeds. Eventually, differences will arise, and give impetus to genocide.
And THAT is the real core message of the Book of Mormon.

He: You,re talking about jacob 5?

Me: Yes. What are the wild and tame branches? Where did they each come from?

He: The wild olive tree is the gentiles and the tame is the house of israel.

Me: Yes, but, as with everything, there are deeper meanings. We're no longer an agrarian society, so a lot of this escapes us today. You're going to have to dig deep and look at this like a gardener. How do you plant a garden? What do you plant in a garden? Why do you plant a garden? Where do you plant a garden?
See also: Matthew 13:28
Consider the natural man vs. the heavenly man.

Me: Carthage Conspiracy: The Trial of the Accused Assassins of Joseph Smith

Whats this?

Me: A book. Same title as that video you sent me. Completely different perspective.

He: What's the perspective of that book?

Me: They don't even touch on the idea that Joseph's murder was orchestrated by false friends, but that it was a conspiracy of a number of people, some FORMER 'friends', and some long-standing enemies. And that only makes sense. Why would anyone who didn't have an issue with Joseph want to kill him? Likewise Christ, Abinadi, Lehi, Booth, and the men who killed JFK. And, while JFK's assassins, for example, were people he'd never seen before, they were nevertheless acting on behalf of people JFK did know, 'for the oath's sake'.
By the way, everything I can find says that Brigham was back east on a mission at the time. Everything I can find indicates that there was nothing untoward in the succession of Brigham Young. Everything I've ever heard from well-informed people (I used to work in the religion department at BYU) suggests that the decision of the apostles was the only right decision.
Always be suspicious of people like this. They have an ulterior motive, no matter how they deny it. And the assertion that they can do any forensics so long after the fact is ludicrous. While I agree, and have seen myself, how eye-witnesses can get things very wrong, we had no cameras back then. But, what we did have was two survivors in that room, and they had decades to reflect and remember. And I've also experienced first-hand how time can clear up confusion. So I'd recommend ignoring people like that.
By the way, and this is hugely important, listen to your scriptures.
Why?
Paul and Joseph both said that faith comes from hearing the word.
Prophets tell us to search the scriptures. Search them for what? Who sends out a search party without a picture or piece of clothing, some clue what to look for?
Scriptures are like dictionaries; you don't just read them, you go looking through them when you have some idea what you're looking for. And you get an idea what to look for by listening to them.
I can only speculate about the mechanism, but I've used it myself. Decades ago, I bought audio scriptures on cassettes, and I listened to them all day, every day at work. And I kept that up over the years, converting to mp3 players when they arrived, then my phone when phones got 'smart'. I listen to them still on my various devices. And not just the 'canon', but secondary scripture, like the book of Jasher, and other ancient writings, too, like the Enuma Elish, and I can tell you that it does make a difference. Back when 9/11 happened, a scripture I'd never heard anyone mention before popped into my head: Isaiah 30:25. Look it up. I had to go 'searching' for it. I knew I'd heard it somewhere. And THAT is the relationship. Hear the word of God; search the scriptures.
And, when you get that kind of faith (erudition), everything else will follow.

He: Do you think Isaiah 30:25 is actually talking about 9/11

Me: No. But it is an interesting parallel, and a bit of foreshadowing.

He: I believe 9/11 was a conspiracy inside job. Do you?

Me: Yes. Absolutely. No doubt at all.

He: Good glad to hear you know also.

Me: The spirit testifies the truth of all things.

He: 👍

Me: By the way, it's not Brigham Young that people need to be suspicious of, but William Smith.

He: So do you believe that an "elias" or a John the Baptist like figure will come around just a year or so prior to the second coming?

Me: He already has. That was Joseph. Next on our horizon is Christ himself.

He: It's been 200 years

Me: And? Every dispensatory prophet is the 'head' of his dispensation, not its tail. That means that we've got this entire 'day' of the church to prepare for Christ's return. Also recall that we are in the last days, not the last day. The last day is the Lord's.

He: 👍 Can I ask you how old you are?

Me: 63 in a couple of months.

Me: Dark to Light: The Great Awakening

He: What's this?

Me: Uplifting.

He: Allright. I'll check it out.

Me: Look closely.

He: Do you believe the heartland model or mesoamerica model for the BoM?

Me: Neither and both. The whole face of the land changed at Christ's arrival. I think few people know just how much it changed, though. It was a lot more than most believe.
Neal Adams - Science: 01 - Conspiracy: Earth is Growing!

He: Well it couldn't have changed too much because the plates were still buried nice and neat and zelphs mound and when Joseph said "the plains of the nephites"

Me: Watch that video again. Most inland areas remain unchanged. Most of those changes will have happened just after the flood. But, the Himalayas and Rockies had yet to form. They sprang up suddenly when the continents suddenly collapsed onto the now much larger earth. Also notice to the Gulf of Mexico area in that video. I think he moves it too soon. I think it sank much later, along with the city of Moroni, at the time of Christ. And that city may have been found.
Also, Zelph lived and died centuries after Christ's arrival.
Neal Adams - Science: 08 - Conspiracy: Mountain Growth!

Me: Adam named the animals, presided over the transition of the earth from celestial to terrestrial, had his diet changed from fruit to bread, saw his life shorten from forever to 1,000 years, had three sons, one went bad, brought a curse.

He: 😮 I thought Eden was terrestrial.

Me: Noah saved the animals, presided over the transition of the earth from terrestrial to telestial, had his diet changed from bread to animals, saw human lifespans shorten from 1,000 years to 120 years, had three sons, one went bad, continuing the curse.
Abraham domesticated and ate the animals (sacrificed the ram instead of his son), presided over the transition of the earth from telestial to outer darkness, saw human life shortened from 120 to 72 years, had three sons (well, sons by three wives), one went bad, turning him into a scourge against the rest.
And, Abraham, too, is a repeat of the whole celestial drama. His name literally means the father of lights, Aba (father) Ra ([God of] light) im (plural).

He: Earth went from telestial to outer darkness during his time?

He: Abraham had 3 sons?

Me: Actually 8 sons, but they are thought of as three sets of sons because of their three different mothers: Ishmael of Hagar, Isaac of Sarah, Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah all of Keturah.

He: We are in outer darkness? What does it mean for the earth to go from telestial to outer darkness?

Me: Revelation 12:14 - "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."
The woman is the church and also the earth itself. We are now in that location, far from home, known as 'the wilderness', aka outer darkness. The earth itself is telestial, but her location is outer darkness, far from home.
Read Brigham Young about that.
We are in a fallen 'world', 'world' meaning the society of men on the earth.
Anyway, back to Abraham, very important, not called the father of the faithful for nothing.
Abraham (type of the father/Adam), Isaac (type of the son/Jehovah), Jacob/Israel (type of the only begotten/Christ), the twelve sons of Jacob/tribes of Israel/signs of the Zodiac (types of the twelve apostles).
Notice also how both Jacob and Christ went to Egypt.

He: I don't understand how you differentiate between the son and the only begotten.

Me: This goes back to the cosmic allegory which Christ himself was so often alluding to. In this allegory, the ancient mythology, Chronos lived on earth as a man. His name was Menes, in Egyptian, Manu in Hindi, Adam to us. This father, in his celestial persona, had a son. That son was Osiris in Egyptian, Thor in Norwegian, Zeus in Greek, Jupiter in Latin, Jehovah to us. But Zeus/Jupiter/Jehovah, according to this mythology, never personally came to earth as a human in the same way that Chronos did. Instead, he sent his 'only begotten'.
So, what's the difference? Why the difference?
The difference is that Michael came to earth himself as Adam. He did not have a mortal mother. Both his parents were divine. Not so Christ. Christ had a divine father, and a mortal mother. You'll also find this in most of the mythologies all over the world. This is how you can tell which divinities in each pantheon are Jehovah by another name: He sired a demi-god child with a human woman.
Thus, there is the father, the son (who is also a father), and the only begotten.
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~~ Marcus Aurelius ~~